Kerr's cur
August 27, 2011 5:43 PM Subscribe
"But there is a broader disquiet in the community which is surely correlated with the current impasse in our politics and media. It is, I believe, a real sense of a loss of legitimacy, a loss of belief in the validity of the institutions that control our nation and over which ordinary citizens have little influence and zero control."A naughty boy's weakening grip on power could spark a constitutional crisis in Australian federal politics. Here's a good time line. There are many Australian's who can remember the scandalous constitutional crisis of 1975 when Queen Elizabeth's representative sacked the Prime Minister – which unbelievably included a comedian interviewing all the major players on the steps of Parliament House as the drama unfolded. It later turned out that the CIA masterminded the whole thing.
Thanks for the picture of Graham Chapman?
posted by lumensimus at 5:44 PM on August 27, 2011
posted by lumensimus at 5:44 PM on August 27, 2011
From what I've read about the CIA I'm not convinced they could mastermind a bucketful of shit at a Crohn's disease convention. Maybe they sucked less in the 70s.
posted by tumid dahlia at 5:57 PM on August 27, 2011 [3 favorites]
posted by tumid dahlia at 5:57 PM on August 27, 2011 [3 favorites]
Maybe they sucked less in the 70s.
The cigarette smoking man still worked there.
posted by maxwelton at 5:59 PM on August 27, 2011 [2 favorites]
The cigarette smoking man still worked there.
posted by maxwelton at 5:59 PM on August 27, 2011 [2 favorites]
They had guys like Hoffman and Redford keeping them on their toes too.
posted by tumid dahlia at 6:08 PM on August 27, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by tumid dahlia at 6:08 PM on August 27, 2011 [1 favorite]
There is apparently going to be more coming out tomorrow. A mate of mine who works in PR has heard that something is afoot.
Also rumours are going around the blogosphere.
It may well be nothing, but the word is the next set of allegations of unions mispending money involve Gillard.
posted by sien at 6:19 PM on August 27, 2011
Also rumours are going around the blogosphere.
It may well be nothing, but the word is the next set of allegations of unions mispending money involve Gillard.
posted by sien at 6:19 PM on August 27, 2011
From what I gather, Labour currently holds 71 seats, while all Opposition parties also hold a combined 71; however, Labour also occupies the Speaker's chair, which leaves them with 70.
Just wondering how the conviction of a Labour MP could spark a constitutional crisis...
posted by KokuRyu at 6:21 PM on August 27, 2011
Just wondering how the conviction of a Labour MP could spark a constitutional crisis...
posted by KokuRyu at 6:21 PM on August 27, 2011
Ah, unlike in Canada, the Governor General has the power to "dismiss" the government, and the Australian Senate can also block supply bills.
posted by KokuRyu at 6:29 PM on August 27, 2011
posted by KokuRyu at 6:29 PM on August 27, 2011
From what I gather, Labour currently holds 71 seats, while all Opposition parties also hold a combined 71; however, Labour also occupies the Speaker's chair, which leaves them with 70.
Both sides had 72 seats, not 71. Labour made a deal with the Green member and the three independents, bringing their seats to 76 and giving them a tiny, tiny lead in the 150 seat House of Reps.
If they lose one seat, then they lose that majority. Hence a Constitutional crisis.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 6:41 PM on August 27, 2011
Both sides had 72 seats, not 71. Labour made a deal with the Green member and the three independents, bringing their seats to 76 and giving them a tiny, tiny lead in the 150 seat House of Reps.
If they lose one seat, then they lose that majority. Hence a Constitutional crisis.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 6:41 PM on August 27, 2011
From what I've read about the CIA I'm not convinced they could mastermind a bucketful of shit at a Crohn's disease convention.
That's what they'd like you to believe...
posted by oneswellfoop at 6:47 PM on August 27, 2011 [5 favorites]
That's what they'd like you to believe...
posted by oneswellfoop at 6:47 PM on August 27, 2011 [5 favorites]
From the first linked article:
What's more likely to happen is that Labor would be unable to survive a no-confidence motion. That would bring down the Government and, if the polling is anything to go by, the ensuing election would almost certainly bring a landslide victory for the Coalition.
However, any conviction would take more time to secure than the Parliament has to run. So it isn't going to happen. What could happen is that Labor might so mis-manage the whole affair that one of the cross-benchers withdraws their support. This isn't inconceivable given their general incompetence in managing it so far, but it's an outside chance at best.
The Governor General won't step in. There's no parallel with 1975 and no constitutional crisis.
posted by GeckoDundee at 6:48 PM on August 27, 2011 [8 favorites]
As Mungo MacCallum pointed out this week, the Thomson affair is far from the genuine constitutional crisis of Gough Whitlam's government. "Compared to 1975, it's pretty Mickey Mouse stuff," he writes, and of course he's right.If Thompson were to be convicted of an offence that carries a penalty of a year or more, he would have to stand down from his seat, causing a by-election. The voters of Dobell are unlikely to fall over one another to put Tony Abbott into the Lodge, but the current polling shows Labor at an historic low. The almost certain outcome would be a victory for the Coalition. This wouldn't be enough to get them government as they would also lack a majority and would if anything find it harder to get support from the cross-benchers.
What's more likely to happen is that Labor would be unable to survive a no-confidence motion. That would bring down the Government and, if the polling is anything to go by, the ensuing election would almost certainly bring a landslide victory for the Coalition.
However, any conviction would take more time to secure than the Parliament has to run. So it isn't going to happen. What could happen is that Labor might so mis-manage the whole affair that one of the cross-benchers withdraws their support. This isn't inconceivable given their general incompetence in managing it so far, but it's an outside chance at best.
The Governor General won't step in. There's no parallel with 1975 and no constitutional crisis.
posted by GeckoDundee at 6:48 PM on August 27, 2011 [8 favorites]
Why do you think there's a Constitutional crisis, his thoughts were red thoughts?
posted by GeckoDundee at 6:49 PM on August 27, 2011
posted by GeckoDundee at 6:49 PM on August 27, 2011
From what I've read about the CIA I'm not convinced they could mastermind a bucketful of shit at a Crohn's disease convention. Maybe they sucked less in the 70s.
Salvador Allende
posted by the noob at 7:36 PM on August 27, 2011 [2 favorites]
Salvador Allende
posted by the noob at 7:36 PM on August 27, 2011 [2 favorites]
Just remind me, someone... did Peter Reith lose his seat, or even his ministry, over the phone card affair?
posted by Jimbob at 7:42 PM on August 27, 2011
posted by Jimbob at 7:42 PM on August 27, 2011
I am so massively fucked off with labor over this, and particularly fucking Bitar and the NSW Right.
They knew Thompson was tainted - and rather than promote a genuine candidate for Dobel they parachute in this fucking hack. Fuck Labor, burn in hell fuckers, you don't deserve to be in government. And.. and.. the odds are so fucking high, can anyone imagine what that insane psychopath Abbot has in store for us. All those fucking loonies, Andrews, Bishop, Mirrabella will have ministries.
And WHO THE FUCK thinks it's ok to spend member's money on escorts and fine dining?
Fuck you Labor. Fuck you from the bottom of my rusted on heart.
posted by the noob at 7:43 PM on August 27, 2011
They knew Thompson was tainted - and rather than promote a genuine candidate for Dobel they parachute in this fucking hack. Fuck Labor, burn in hell fuckers, you don't deserve to be in government. And.. and.. the odds are so fucking high, can anyone imagine what that insane psychopath Abbot has in store for us. All those fucking loonies, Andrews, Bishop, Mirrabella will have ministries.
And WHO THE FUCK thinks it's ok to spend member's money on escorts and fine dining?
Fuck you Labor. Fuck you from the bottom of my rusted on heart.
posted by the noob at 7:43 PM on August 27, 2011
Just remind me, someone... did Peter Reith lose his seat, or even his ministry, over the phone card affair?
He retired.
I saw him on a tram the other day looking as stooped and evil as ever. Bit paler which suited him well.
posted by the noob at 7:44 PM on August 27, 2011
He retired.
I saw him on a tram the other day looking as stooped and evil as ever. Bit paler which suited him well.
posted by the noob at 7:44 PM on August 27, 2011
And.. and.. the odds are so fucking high, can anyone imagine what that insane psychopath Abbot has in store for us. All those fucking loonies, Andrews, Bishop, Mirrabella will have ministries.
Bastards gotta remember the Greens control the Senate. May the Liberals live in interesting times...
posted by Jimbob at 7:45 PM on August 27, 2011 [1 favorite]
Bastards gotta remember the Greens control the Senate. May the Liberals live in interesting times...
posted by Jimbob at 7:45 PM on August 27, 2011 [1 favorite]
As far as I understand it the CIA used to be a pack of upper class Yalie sociopaths who came out of the OSS in WW2, where they had developed a taste for and strong skill set relating to, clandestine murder, irregular warfare and right wing authoritarianism as an antidote to communism. That's the CIA that did all the spy novel shit. As far as I know, after the mid-70's That CIA was progressively neutered by the Church committee hearings, the growth of other intelligence agencies, particularly the DIA, and by reorganization in Washington post 9/11 that saw the creation of the DNI post effectively removing the CIA from it's role as the senior intelligence service.
posted by Grimgrin at 7:52 PM on August 27, 2011
posted by Grimgrin at 7:52 PM on August 27, 2011
What's the difference between a catfish and John Kerr?
One's a river bottom sucking scum feeder and one's a fish.
posted by Talez at 7:58 PM on August 27, 2011
One's a river bottom sucking scum feeder and one's a fish.
posted by Talez at 7:58 PM on August 27, 2011
GeckoDundee, forgive me. What I meant was, that if the Government loses a seat, the opposition could force a constitutional crisis by refusing to pass critical legislation, such as the Budget (like in 1975).
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 8:11 PM on August 27, 2011
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 8:11 PM on August 27, 2011
There is some really interesting backgrounding of Kerr in this Late Night Live. Jim McClelland essentially charts Kerr as a witty affable left leaning lawyer - by all accounts a fine GG for a labor govt to appoint - into a ruined snobbish soak.
posted by the noob at 8:14 PM on August 27, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by the noob at 8:14 PM on August 27, 2011 [1 favorite]
GeckoDundee, forgive me. What I meant was, that if the Government loses a seat, the opposition could force a constitutional crisis by refusing to pass critical legislation, such as the Budget (like in 1975).
There's no crisis apart from the crisis we're already having with this minority government. The opposition will run out of puff on Thompson - unless new allegations come to light. Abbot is rabid, but they will at some stage move on. Thompson doesn't have to go anywhere. And if he does, then Harry Jenkins will resign as speaker and Slipper will take over. Crikey was reporting during the week that there is substantial dirt on Slipper. So anyway, the balance will be maintained. What I think is important to note and condemn is that Abbott is refusing to grant a pair to any absent govt member, meaning essentially that no one may leave the chamber.
He's an arsehole - and so much for his collegiate polity.
posted by the noob at 8:22 PM on August 27, 2011 [1 favorite]
There's no crisis apart from the crisis we're already having with this minority government. The opposition will run out of puff on Thompson - unless new allegations come to light. Abbot is rabid, but they will at some stage move on. Thompson doesn't have to go anywhere. And if he does, then Harry Jenkins will resign as speaker and Slipper will take over. Crikey was reporting during the week that there is substantial dirt on Slipper. So anyway, the balance will be maintained. What I think is important to note and condemn is that Abbott is refusing to grant a pair to any absent govt member, meaning essentially that no one may leave the chamber.
He's an arsehole - and so much for his collegiate polity.
posted by the noob at 8:22 PM on August 27, 2011 [1 favorite]
Ah right, I understand, His thoughts were red thoughts. There wouldn't really be a Constitutional crises though, the fact that a party without a majority can lose government when it loses confidence is the way it's supposed to work.
Slipper would be an interesting choice to install as speaker given the troubles he's got.
posted by GeckoDundee at 8:38 PM on August 27, 2011
Slipper would be an interesting choice to install as speaker given the troubles he's got.
posted by GeckoDundee at 8:38 PM on August 27, 2011
I have absolute confidence that, should Labor lose a seat, Katter will come on board. Just to fuck with the Nationals as much as possible.
posted by Jimbob at 9:02 PM on August 27, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by Jimbob at 9:02 PM on August 27, 2011 [1 favorite]
The events of 1975 were a constitutional crisis because the Senate and the House of Representatives were controlled by different parties, and they were stalemated. The Whitlam government was massively unpopular (something that people today seem to forget) and the Opposition wanted a new election, which they were sure to win - as it turned out they did win. The Opposition-controlled Senate didn't have the power to force a change of government directly, but it had the ability to block "supply" - the government's authority to raise money by taxation. The government's response was to hunker down and hope that the Senate's tactics made it sufficiently unpopular that it would back down.
I feel that the Whitlam government was reckless and foolhardy and it really needed to go. The Opposition under Malcolm Fraser had been playing appalling games of political brinkmanship and it really deserves to be criticised - but the remedy for both of these things was a new election even though it would actually give Fraser what he was after.
The actual constitutional crisis consisted of the fact that although the Governor General Sir John Kerr had the power to appoint a new government (which would immediately fail, prompting a new election) constitutional convention meant the Governor General could be removed from his position by the request of the Prime Minister. This meant that Kerr couldn't threaten to impose a solution, and his silence meant that Whitlam thought he had time to get the Senate to back down. Whitlam was wrong about Kerr - I think Whitlam was generally a poor judge of character - and Kerr decided to use his power to appoint a new (Fraser-led) government which would call a new election. Remarkably, Whitlam did not immediately tell the government senators what had happened, and the fools didn't see anything odd about the formerly-Opposition senators voting to pass the Supply Bill. So Whitlam's party actually gave Supply to Fraser's government. A new election was called shortly afterwards (because Fraser did not have the support of the Lower House), and Fraser won it handily.
Anyway, this is what a Constitutional Crisis is like. In contrast, a government failing due to losing an election is just business as usual. This is what is supposed to happen.
posted by Joe in Australia at 9:14 PM on August 27, 2011 [2 favorites]
I feel that the Whitlam government was reckless and foolhardy and it really needed to go. The Opposition under Malcolm Fraser had been playing appalling games of political brinkmanship and it really deserves to be criticised - but the remedy for both of these things was a new election even though it would actually give Fraser what he was after.
The actual constitutional crisis consisted of the fact that although the Governor General Sir John Kerr had the power to appoint a new government (which would immediately fail, prompting a new election) constitutional convention meant the Governor General could be removed from his position by the request of the Prime Minister. This meant that Kerr couldn't threaten to impose a solution, and his silence meant that Whitlam thought he had time to get the Senate to back down. Whitlam was wrong about Kerr - I think Whitlam was generally a poor judge of character - and Kerr decided to use his power to appoint a new (Fraser-led) government which would call a new election. Remarkably, Whitlam did not immediately tell the government senators what had happened, and the fools didn't see anything odd about the formerly-Opposition senators voting to pass the Supply Bill. So Whitlam's party actually gave Supply to Fraser's government. A new election was called shortly afterwards (because Fraser did not have the support of the Lower House), and Fraser won it handily.
Anyway, this is what a Constitutional Crisis is like. In contrast, a government failing due to losing an election is just business as usual. This is what is supposed to happen.
posted by Joe in Australia at 9:14 PM on August 27, 2011 [2 favorites]
Supply isn't the power to tax: it's just another name for the appopriation bills, or the legal authority to spend money. With no supply, no departmental budgets for most departments, no services, and so on, although things like the pension aren't part of supply.
posted by kithrater at 9:30 PM on August 27, 2011
posted by kithrater at 9:30 PM on August 27, 2011
They knew Thompson was tainted...
Not defending Thomson at all. But it's worth pointing out the person who initiated this campaign against him (Kathy Jackson) was/is his bitter factional enemy and her at-the-time husband left the same post as Thomson under virutally identical allegations of misspent funds and accusations off frequenting the same brothel, no less. And there were/are many allegations flying around about other senior staff in the union going back years.
Closer examination of this whole things reveals a surprisingly more sordid - and complicated - picture than headlines + George Brandis would imply. Rather than a lone bad apple ruining the whole barrel, the union hierarchy in question is more like a barrel full of sloppy shit, and someone's picked out one particular ladle of the aforementioned and started screaming about how dirty it is. Well, it is. It's shit, what do you expect?
There is still no evidence that Thomson - nothwithstanding he's a corpulent factional pustule - has actually committed any crime, and knowing the number of skeletons likely to be hanging around in the union financial records and closets, I would be very surprised if any is likely to come to light.
The Liberals getting the vapours and declaring a scandal about behaviour that has little legal impediment, when one of their own senators is currently facing criminal charges is by turns hilarious and frustrating.
This not to paint Thomson and Labor as paragons of virtue, but rather to highlight that mongrels are by nature a by-partisan breed. The juxtaposition of the rabid babble around this and Abbott's promise of a "kinder, gentler parliament" scarcely needs comment.
Further, I think there's neither an impasse in politics or the media. At the last election, the public basically said "Fuck the lot of youse", and the result I think fairly accurately reflects that. The hysterical, compromised banality of media reportage in Australia is par of the course and has been for years.
posted by smoke at 9:32 PM on August 27, 2011 [4 favorites]
Not defending Thomson at all. But it's worth pointing out the person who initiated this campaign against him (Kathy Jackson) was/is his bitter factional enemy and her at-the-time husband left the same post as Thomson under virutally identical allegations of misspent funds and accusations off frequenting the same brothel, no less. And there were/are many allegations flying around about other senior staff in the union going back years.
Closer examination of this whole things reveals a surprisingly more sordid - and complicated - picture than headlines + George Brandis would imply. Rather than a lone bad apple ruining the whole barrel, the union hierarchy in question is more like a barrel full of sloppy shit, and someone's picked out one particular ladle of the aforementioned and started screaming about how dirty it is. Well, it is. It's shit, what do you expect?
There is still no evidence that Thomson - nothwithstanding he's a corpulent factional pustule - has actually committed any crime, and knowing the number of skeletons likely to be hanging around in the union financial records and closets, I would be very surprised if any is likely to come to light.
The Liberals getting the vapours and declaring a scandal about behaviour that has little legal impediment, when one of their own senators is currently facing criminal charges is by turns hilarious and frustrating.
This not to paint Thomson and Labor as paragons of virtue, but rather to highlight that mongrels are by nature a by-partisan breed. The juxtaposition of the rabid babble around this and Abbott's promise of a "kinder, gentler parliament" scarcely needs comment.
Further, I think there's neither an impasse in politics or the media. At the last election, the public basically said "Fuck the lot of youse", and the result I think fairly accurately reflects that. The hysterical, compromised banality of media reportage in Australia is par of the course and has been for years.
posted by smoke at 9:32 PM on August 27, 2011 [4 favorites]
The media smell blood, and so are beating up the story for all it's worth in the hope of attaining a back-bencher scalp and a new election. If that doesn't happen soon, people will get bored and the media will move on. The story about the naughty boy will get pulled out and dusted off in 2013 at the next election as another nail in Labor's coffin, unless there's a stunning reversal sometime between now and August/November 2013.
posted by kithrater at 9:40 PM on August 27, 2011
posted by kithrater at 9:40 PM on August 27, 2011
It's not all bad news for Labor. At least one of their members can organise a fuck in a brothel.
posted by Wolof at 10:24 PM on August 27, 2011 [14 favorites]
posted by Wolof at 10:24 PM on August 27, 2011 [14 favorites]
No, only with his corporate credit card. He shouldn't have to step down because he fucked a prostitute. He should have to step down because he is too blitheringly stupid to have any responsibility whatsoever.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 11:01 PM on August 27, 2011 [2 favorites]
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 11:01 PM on August 27, 2011 [2 favorites]
apostrophe mistake on the front page... the shame, the shame
posted by uncanny hengeman at 11:16 PM on August 27, 2011
posted by uncanny hengeman at 11:16 PM on August 27, 2011
I have absolute confidence that, should Labor lose a seat, Katter will come on board. Just to fuck with the Nationals as much as possible.
Or perhaps a coalition with Katter's new style old style socialist/libertarian thing.
posted by the noob at 12:41 AM on August 28, 2011
Or perhaps a coalition with Katter's new style old style socialist/libertarian thing.
posted by the noob at 12:41 AM on August 28, 2011
Boyce becomes disillusioned with the U.S. government through his new position, especially after reading a misrouted communiqué dealing with the CIA's plan to depose the Prime Minister of Australia...
reference to The Falcon and the Snowman.
posted by ovvl at 3:56 PM on August 28, 2011
reference to The Falcon and the Snowman.
posted by ovvl at 3:56 PM on August 28, 2011
From what I've read about the CIA I'm not convinced they could mastermind a bucketful of shit at a Crohn's disease convention.
You've been reading the wrong things. Try this book.
posted by UbuRoivas at 4:07 PM on August 28, 2011
You've been reading the wrong things. Try this book.
posted by UbuRoivas at 4:07 PM on August 28, 2011
Apparently Glen Milne said something in the Australian that was so full of bullshit this morning that it got pulled...
posted by Jimbob at 5:44 PM on August 28, 2011 [2 favorites]
posted by Jimbob at 5:44 PM on August 28, 2011 [2 favorites]
Oh here's the article, pulled from the memory hole. Typical Glenn Milne breathless muckracking that was clearly too much for News Ltd.
posted by Jimbob at 5:59 PM on August 28, 2011
posted by Jimbob at 5:59 PM on August 28, 2011
The Australian unreservedly apologises to the Prime Minister
Jeez, I bet that stung.
posted by pompomtom at 6:19 PM on August 28, 2011 [3 favorites]
Jeez, I bet that stung.
posted by pompomtom at 6:19 PM on August 28, 2011 [3 favorites]
From the same page as the apology, brought to you by the Department of Irony:
CHINA'S most popular microblogging site is cracking down on what it says is the spread of false rumours after the Communist Party told internet companies to tighten control over information online.
posted by Joe in Australia at 6:38 PM on August 28, 2011
CHINA'S most popular microblogging site is cracking down on what it says is the spread of false rumours after the Communist Party told internet companies to tighten control over information online.
posted by Joe in Australia at 6:38 PM on August 28, 2011
And if he does, then Harry Jenkins will resign as speaker and Slipper will take over.
the noob, I'm no Constitution / Parliamentary Protocol hobbyist snob or anything, I fluked this titbit a few days ago:
Some people seem to have assumed that Deputy Speaker Peter Slipper would automatically become Speaker. This is not the case. Mr Slipper can act for the Speaker, but someone must hold the office of Speaker for him to act in the role.
Under the standing orders of the House of Representatives, if the Speaker's position falls vacant, the House cannot transact any normal business until it elects a new Speaker.
Assuming all the above about Dobell, getting Mr Jenkins to resign would facilitate the Gillard government luring an opposition member to fill the post of Speaker, restoring the government's floor majority. But if the parliament cannot resolve a new speaker, it cannot transact business and there would be no option other than another election, unless Labor put one of its own back in the Chair and continued to try and govern.
There is precedent for a Speaker resigning in this sort of situation. In 1911 the first Labor government in NSW faced a similar problem following the resignation of two Labor MPs from parliament, potentially depriving the government of its majority. It created a major constitutional imbroglio eventually resolved by Acting Labor Premier William Holman convincing a conservative MP to take the post of Speaker.
So if we behave like gentlemen politicians of 1911, then we might get an amicable solution.
I laugh at how Antony Green has achieved The Demtel Guy kind of fame in Australia.
posted by uncanny hengeman at 10:17 PM on August 28, 2011
the noob, I'm no Constitution / Parliamentary Protocol hobbyist snob or anything, I fluked this titbit a few days ago:
Some people seem to have assumed that Deputy Speaker Peter Slipper would automatically become Speaker. This is not the case. Mr Slipper can act for the Speaker, but someone must hold the office of Speaker for him to act in the role.
Under the standing orders of the House of Representatives, if the Speaker's position falls vacant, the House cannot transact any normal business until it elects a new Speaker.
Assuming all the above about Dobell, getting Mr Jenkins to resign would facilitate the Gillard government luring an opposition member to fill the post of Speaker, restoring the government's floor majority. But if the parliament cannot resolve a new speaker, it cannot transact business and there would be no option other than another election, unless Labor put one of its own back in the Chair and continued to try and govern.
There is precedent for a Speaker resigning in this sort of situation. In 1911 the first Labor government in NSW faced a similar problem following the resignation of two Labor MPs from parliament, potentially depriving the government of its majority. It created a major constitutional imbroglio eventually resolved by Acting Labor Premier William Holman convincing a conservative MP to take the post of Speaker.
So if we behave like gentlemen politicians of 1911, then we might get an amicable solution.
I laugh at how Antony Green has achieved The Demtel Guy kind of fame in Australia.
posted by uncanny hengeman at 10:17 PM on August 28, 2011
Thanks for the picture of Graham Chapman?
lumensimus - he's a very naughty boy [0:10s - SFW]
I thought it was a gimme.
posted by uncanny hengeman at 10:29 PM on August 28, 2011
lumensimus - he's a very naughty boy [0:10s - SFW]
I thought it was a gimme.
posted by uncanny hengeman at 10:29 PM on August 28, 2011
Uncanny Hengeman's link links to this further article which makes hilarious reading, if you like politics.
posted by Joe in Australia at 11:53 PM on August 28, 2011 [2 favorites]
posted by Joe in Australia at 11:53 PM on August 28, 2011 [2 favorites]
Uncanny Hengeman's link links to this further article which makes hilarious reading, if you like politics.
posted by Joe in Australia at 11:53 PM on August 28 [1 favorite +] [!]
That was indeed excellent reading, cheers!
posted by Hello, I'm David McGahan at 7:12 PM on August 29, 2011
posted by Joe in Australia at 11:53 PM on August 28 [1 favorite +] [!]
That was indeed excellent reading, cheers!
posted by Hello, I'm David McGahan at 7:12 PM on August 29, 2011
That was indeed excellent reading, cheers!
While we're handing out bouquets to Joe, can I also thank him for this post.
Much to my acute embarrassment, I didn't know the half of it. Correct me if I'm wrong Joe, but are you saying John Kerr kept his trap shut coz he was afraid of losing his job, and that Whitlam had the power to instigate proceedings to have him removed, so he refused to criticise Whitlam publically? And Whitlam was too much of an idiot to take into account this possibility?
...the Labor senators passing supply to the new government they didn't know existed. Huge laughs! No wonder Labor people were - to quote the American term – EXTREMELY PISSED! That was a complete pantsing. One lap around the pool table with your pants around your ankles, thanks Gough.
posted by uncanny hengeman at 9:50 PM on August 29, 2011
While we're handing out bouquets to Joe, can I also thank him for this post.
Much to my acute embarrassment, I didn't know the half of it. Correct me if I'm wrong Joe, but are you saying John Kerr kept his trap shut coz he was afraid of losing his job, and that Whitlam had the power to instigate proceedings to have him removed, so he refused to criticise Whitlam publically? And Whitlam was too much of an idiot to take into account this possibility?
...the Labor senators passing supply to the new government they didn't know existed. Huge laughs! No wonder Labor people were - to quote the American term – EXTREMELY PISSED! That was a complete pantsing. One lap around the pool table with your pants around your ankles, thanks Gough.
posted by uncanny hengeman at 9:50 PM on August 29, 2011
Just remind me, someone... did Peter Reith lose his seat, or even his ministry, over the phone card affair?
Jesus Christ. "B-b-but someone in the opposition did something 10% as bad 11 years ago!"
You're part of the problem, Jimbob: Phone card scandal October 2000 - NEVARR FORGET!
posted by uncanny hengeman at 9:55 PM on August 29, 2011
Jesus Christ. "B-b-but someone in the opposition did something 10% as bad 11 years ago!"
You're part of the problem, Jimbob: Phone card scandal October 2000 - NEVARR FORGET!
posted by uncanny hengeman at 9:55 PM on August 29, 2011
You're right; UH, we should forget everything about each political party and start with a clean slate every week! What's that? The media already does this and it's totally shit and has led to a progressive dumbing down of our national and political discourse? Bummer.
More pertinently, Reith arguably tend commit a crime, committed it whilst in office moreover, and rather than be fired fell on his sword and resigned. I don't think the two situations are really comparable in any meaningful way.
posted by smoke at 10:08 PM on August 29, 2011
More pertinently, Reith arguably tend commit a crime, committed it whilst in office moreover, and rather than be fired fell on his sword and resigned. I don't think the two situations are really comparable in any meaningful way.
posted by smoke at 10:08 PM on August 29, 2011
I don't think the two situations are really comparable in any meaningful way.
Exactly. Thankyou. And Jimbob - respected climate change scientist that he claims to be - ought to be chastised for his stupid cheerleading by attempting to compare the two.
Senator Nick Sherry: Thief. Beasley government goes: "Awwww, but he tried to commit suicide when he got caught stealing. Awwwww." Let me just Google for him, see what he's up to now....
...He's still a senator! That's terrible. What do you think, smoke? Jimbob? This is fun. I can play this stupid game all day.
But you're just a cheerleader, too, smoke. You're SERIOUSLY suggesting Reith's son's flatmate's crime of using a government-issued PIN is worse – WORSE??! – than Craig Thomson's, and the associated cover ups, and missing documents, and threats to female union leaders? As Lenin once said: "useful idiots"
posted by uncanny hengeman at 10:36 PM on August 29, 2011
Exactly. Thankyou. And Jimbob - respected climate change scientist that he claims to be - ought to be chastised for his stupid cheerleading by attempting to compare the two.
Senator Nick Sherry: Thief. Beasley government goes: "Awwww, but he tried to commit suicide when he got caught stealing. Awwwww." Let me just Google for him, see what he's up to now....
...He's still a senator! That's terrible. What do you think, smoke? Jimbob? This is fun. I can play this stupid game all day.
But you're just a cheerleader, too, smoke. You're SERIOUSLY suggesting Reith's son's flatmate's crime of using a government-issued PIN is worse – WORSE??! – than Craig Thomson's, and the associated cover ups, and missing documents, and threats to female union leaders? As Lenin once said: "useful idiots"
posted by uncanny hengeman at 10:36 PM on August 29, 2011
Sorry, Beasley wasn't in government. Crikey, where'd I get that from? But he was the slimeball Labor leader mouthpiece on the TV who was going "awwwww" all the time.
"Awwww, stop investigating us stealing stuff it makes us sad awwwww."
posted by uncanny hengeman at 10:42 PM on August 29, 2011
"Awwww, stop investigating us stealing stuff it makes us sad awwwww."
posted by uncanny hengeman at 10:42 PM on August 29, 2011
You're SERIOUSLY suggesting Reith's son's flatmate's crime of using a government-issued PIN is worse – WORSE??! – than Craig Thomson's.
I suggest no such thing. I do suggest, I care far more about abuses of office by sitting members using public funds, than private union shenanigans that occur in a cesspitty union environment where accusations of fund misuse and abuse are more regular than an atomic clock and no one is actually charged because it's unclear if a crime has been committed.
I definitely care about that. As for "worse" and "better"; I truly don't give a shit. Also, Reithy's bill was something like 50k, only 1k of which he ascribed to his son - truly a prodigious number of phone calls, even the heady days of the late nineties/early 2000s.
Do I think Thomson is a dickhead? Almost certainly. Do I think he's emblematic of Labor's shit-quality candidates and lack of vetting? Without a doubt. Do I think calling up prostitutes on a union dime is wrong? You betcha. But...
Do I think he committed a crime? Unlikely. Do I think Thomson is a particularly dark star of the union in question and parliament in general? Not really. Am I supportive of muck-raking through MPs histories and private lives in order to flay them for immoral - but legal - peccadilloes? Absolutely not.
This storm in a teacup will be forgotten in a year or so, and the only reason its reached such a fever pitch is the relentless and hypocritical beat-up by the opposition and a credulous, gossipy media. Shit like this gets more headlines than Children Overboard and it shits me to no end.
posted by smoke at 10:49 PM on August 29, 2011 [1 favorite]
I suggest no such thing. I do suggest, I care far more about abuses of office by sitting members using public funds, than private union shenanigans that occur in a cesspitty union environment where accusations of fund misuse and abuse are more regular than an atomic clock and no one is actually charged because it's unclear if a crime has been committed.
I definitely care about that. As for "worse" and "better"; I truly don't give a shit. Also, Reithy's bill was something like 50k, only 1k of which he ascribed to his son - truly a prodigious number of phone calls, even the heady days of the late nineties/early 2000s.
Do I think Thomson is a dickhead? Almost certainly. Do I think he's emblematic of Labor's shit-quality candidates and lack of vetting? Without a doubt. Do I think calling up prostitutes on a union dime is wrong? You betcha. But...
Do I think he committed a crime? Unlikely. Do I think Thomson is a particularly dark star of the union in question and parliament in general? Not really. Am I supportive of muck-raking through MPs histories and private lives in order to flay them for immoral - but legal - peccadilloes? Absolutely not.
This storm in a teacup will be forgotten in a year or so, and the only reason its reached such a fever pitch is the relentless and hypocritical beat-up by the opposition and a credulous, gossipy media. Shit like this gets more headlines than Children Overboard and it shits me to no end.
posted by smoke at 10:49 PM on August 29, 2011 [1 favorite]
Additionaly, UH, Sherry was cleared of all wrong-doing, and I think hijacking his depression and suicide attempt to prove a wan point, and implying they were a gambit to avoid responsibility is edging into offensive - and certainly well into extremely ignorant - territory. And you wonder why I think cooler heads could benefit parliament, the media, and the public and that witch hunts are not a great idea.
As you suggest, it is a stupid game you are playing, indeed.
I'm perfectly happy that Sherry remains in parliament, and I would suggest I would rather have a hundred like him than law-abiding arseholes like Bill Heffernan, Sophie Mirabella and Corey Bernardi.
posted by smoke at 11:15 PM on August 29, 2011 [1 favorite]
As you suggest, it is a stupid game you are playing, indeed.
I'm perfectly happy that Sherry remains in parliament, and I would suggest I would rather have a hundred like him than law-abiding arseholes like Bill Heffernan, Sophie Mirabella and Corey Bernardi.
posted by smoke at 11:15 PM on August 29, 2011 [1 favorite]
Uncanny Hengeman: Nobody expected the Governor General to criticise the Prime Minister publicly; it would be totally against constitutional convention. The question is whether Kerr should have made it clear (in his private conversations with the Prime Minister) that Whitlam was working to a deadline. Kerr didn't do this; in fact Whitlam alleged that he was given the impression that he had time to wear down the Opposition. In fact at the time of the dismissal Whitlam was carrying advice (i.e., a request) for Kerr that a half-Senate election should be held. The timing was that close.
There's a bit cited in the Wikipedia article that's worth reading:
I think you can look at this in two ways. One way is to say that the Governor General should not be attached to his position, and that it was Kerr's duty to be frank with the Prime Minister even at the cost of being recalled. The other way is that Whitlam's anticipated response to this sort of threat - appointing a friendly stooge - would have been so harmful to public faith in the political system that it was better to avoid the possibility. My feeling is that a new election was necessary, and fairness to Whitlam doesn't really come into it.
posted by Joe in Australia at 11:38 PM on August 29, 2011
There's a bit cited in the Wikipedia article that's worth reading:
Although Whitlam later alleged that he never contemplated dismissing Kerr during the crisis, on 16 October, while speaking with Kerr and visiting Malaysian Prime Minister Tun Abdul Razak, he told Kerr that if the crisis continued, "It could be a question of whether I get to the Queen first for your recall, or whether you get in first with my dismissal." Kerr saw the statement as a threat; Whitlam later stated the comment was "flippant" and designed to turn the conversation to another subject.With the benefit of hindsight this was a really stupid comment and it may have marked Whitlam's downfall.
I think you can look at this in two ways. One way is to say that the Governor General should not be attached to his position, and that it was Kerr's duty to be frank with the Prime Minister even at the cost of being recalled. The other way is that Whitlam's anticipated response to this sort of threat - appointing a friendly stooge - would have been so harmful to public faith in the political system that it was better to avoid the possibility. My feeling is that a new election was necessary, and fairness to Whitlam doesn't really come into it.
posted by Joe in Australia at 11:38 PM on August 29, 2011
Sherry was cleared of all wrong-doing
ZING! We have a winner.
Yeah, And O.J. Simpson was not-guilty. Do YOU think he was stealing money, smoke?
I love his Jimbob-esque excuse in the link you provided: "Senator Brownhill has exactly the same responsibilities and duties that I had and he stole stuff tooooooo!"
the last few words of his quote may have been changed for comedy reasons
posted by uncanny hengeman at 12:01 AM on August 30, 2011
ZING! We have a winner.
Yeah, And O.J. Simpson was not-guilty. Do YOU think he was stealing money, smoke?
I love his Jimbob-esque excuse in the link you provided: "Senator Brownhill has exactly the same responsibilities and duties that I had and he stole stuff tooooooo!"
the last few words of his quote may have been changed for comedy reasons
posted by uncanny hengeman at 12:01 AM on August 30, 2011
nobody expected the Governor General to criticise the Prime Minister publicly
I need to take a chill pill. I've just re read my last few comments. I'm not that angry at you Jimbob. Sorry about my tone.
:|
posted by uncanny hengeman at 2:37 AM on August 30, 2011
I need to take a chill pill. I've just re read my last few comments. I'm not that angry at you Jimbob. Sorry about my tone.
:|
posted by uncanny hengeman at 2:37 AM on August 30, 2011
Ooh wow, this thread has livened up!
For the record, uncanny, my question regarding Reith honestly wasn't meant to be some sort of "gotcha!" comparison...I was just pondering previous scandals and it occurred to me "Hey, what ever happened to that guy?" I will say, however, that I'm sure the Reith thing stuck in my head because it went on so. bloody. long. Pretty sure he didn't fall on his sword until he had to.
posted by Jimbob at 5:36 AM on August 30, 2011
For the record, uncanny, my question regarding Reith honestly wasn't meant to be some sort of "gotcha!" comparison...I was just pondering previous scandals and it occurred to me "Hey, what ever happened to that guy?" I will say, however, that I'm sure the Reith thing stuck in my head because it went on so. bloody. long. Pretty sure he didn't fall on his sword until he had to.
posted by Jimbob at 5:36 AM on August 30, 2011
I've just re read my last few comments. I'm not that angry at you Jimbob. Sorry about my tone.
I'm just happy someone is thinking of me...
posted by Jimbob at 5:44 AM on August 30, 2011
I'm just happy someone is thinking of me...
posted by Jimbob at 5:44 AM on August 30, 2011
If you can read and hold your nose at the same time, you can read Reith on Thompson here. (Yes, the ABC).
posted by GeckoDundee at 6:17 PM on August 30, 2011
posted by GeckoDundee at 6:17 PM on August 30, 2011
If you can read and hold your nose at the same time, you can read Reith on Thompson here. (Yes, the ABC).
* Flagged as offensive *
Abbott is doing better. The PM has at least three problems. Firstly, Ms Gillard is incompetent.
If you ignore the bullshit from the coalition, the Government is actually getting things done. The BER that the coalition keep bitching about was actually incredibly successful, if you look at the raw numbers, and problems can be traced back to the State governments managing the program. Liberal MPs were all super happy to turn up to openings of new libraries and assembly halls. Although the federal take-over of hospitals is in limbo, there have been significant health reformed achieved. We never hear about the legislation that was passed, even less the legislation that has bipartisan support, like the reforms to disability allowances.
Secondly, she can't extricate herself from Thomson.
And the Liberals can't leave Thompson alone, and have spent 95% of question time over the last two weeks of Parliament bitching about him instead of policy. It is instructive that the only real, legitimate economic question I heard in Question Time last week was from Adam Bandt, regarding protecting local manufacturers from the impact of the high Australian dollar. Call me when Thompson's charged with an offense, or when the Liberal party show an interest in managing the country.
And thirdly, Mr Abbott is focussed on stopping a new tax that will cut living standards.
...while promising to spend 70 billion dollars on a scheme that has the same ultimate target, without providing any way of paying for it besides increasing taxes. The interesting thing about Abbott's climate change plan is that government regulation and payments will increase as more businesses aim to cut pollution, while Labor's CPRS will fade away as pollution is reduced.
Having said all that, I still have no problem watching the Liberals in power and trying to get things past the Greens in the senate. Interesting times...
posted by Jimbob at 8:10 PM on August 30, 2011 [1 favorite]
* Flagged as offensive *
Abbott is doing better. The PM has at least three problems. Firstly, Ms Gillard is incompetent.
If you ignore the bullshit from the coalition, the Government is actually getting things done. The BER that the coalition keep bitching about was actually incredibly successful, if you look at the raw numbers, and problems can be traced back to the State governments managing the program. Liberal MPs were all super happy to turn up to openings of new libraries and assembly halls. Although the federal take-over of hospitals is in limbo, there have been significant health reformed achieved. We never hear about the legislation that was passed, even less the legislation that has bipartisan support, like the reforms to disability allowances.
Secondly, she can't extricate herself from Thomson.
And the Liberals can't leave Thompson alone, and have spent 95% of question time over the last two weeks of Parliament bitching about him instead of policy. It is instructive that the only real, legitimate economic question I heard in Question Time last week was from Adam Bandt, regarding protecting local manufacturers from the impact of the high Australian dollar. Call me when Thompson's charged with an offense, or when the Liberal party show an interest in managing the country.
And thirdly, Mr Abbott is focussed on stopping a new tax that will cut living standards.
...while promising to spend 70 billion dollars on a scheme that has the same ultimate target, without providing any way of paying for it besides increasing taxes. The interesting thing about Abbott's climate change plan is that government regulation and payments will increase as more businesses aim to cut pollution, while Labor's CPRS will fade away as pollution is reduced.
Having said all that, I still have no problem watching the Liberals in power and trying to get things past the Greens in the senate. Interesting times...
posted by Jimbob at 8:10 PM on August 30, 2011 [1 favorite]
Cheers sein!
Not their best effort, but still a great honour for our country. These guys are sharp, I loved their "Palin family" one. Top shelf.
posted by uncanny hengeman at 10:16 PM on August 31, 2011
Not their best effort, but still a great honour for our country. These guys are sharp, I loved their "Palin family" one. Top shelf.
posted by uncanny hengeman at 10:16 PM on August 31, 2011
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